I am going to be completely honest here. Yes, when I am single I am bitter about Valentine’s Day. But I have been with the BF for almost two years now. Last year was very romantic. I cooked us dinner, we ate to candlelight, and danced to a romantic slow dance mix I made, exchanged gifts (I made him a book with 100 reasons why I loved him, complete with pictures and so on.)
This year….well, I told David I wanted flowers, stuffed animals, go out to dinner, a gift, blah blah blah.
And I know this should probably be setting off feminist alarm bells…but let’s face it. This is all wound up in some of my middle/high school pain. During those tender, tender years, I was the girl who never ever ever EVER got candy grams or flowers or gifts or balloons or any of that shit. I got to watch all of the more romantically-inclined girls prance up and down the hallways with their arm-fulls of loot while I slugged along on the gray February day, spitting venom about how I didn’t want a relationship anyway and how Valentine’s Day and all of its partakers were shallow…..
Well you know what? I don’t care if it’s shallow or not. I want flowers. I want dinner. I want a teddy bear. And I want to celebrate with the romantic trappings that I was denied through my adolescence because I was an awkward bird. So here I am, 22, and I want to have a silly holiday. Now, if Ionly I could prance up and down the halls of my old high school.
I can’t be blamed….can I?
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February 17, 2009 at 4:06 am
Amelia
I used to feel the same way about flower/candy, etc. I never got them, so I kinda wanted them every now and then. Personally, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting things like that as long as they aren’t serving as a stand in for a real, caring, and egalitarian relationship.
And to me, you can be egalitarian even if every now and then your significant other gives you flowers, takes you out to eat, etc.
February 19, 2009 at 4:46 pm
David
I really dislike the concept of women feeling entitled to gifts and pampering.
Demanding gifts might not set off feminist alarm bells, but to me, it’d set off the “separate yourself from this leech asap” alarm bells.
The minute someone tells me I have to buy them gifts? Bye-bye. You are no longer needed, your last check will be mailed to you.
If I buy a gift, it’s because I wanted to, and felt that the sentiment was worthwhile. NOT because some entitled ass demanded it of me.
So, yes, you CAN be blamed.
Demanding gifts because you feel you “deserve” them, is horrific entitlement, and it’s rather disgusting.
February 19, 2009 at 5:46 pm
goingtomontreal
David–
Let me put it this way. This is not how it transpired:
Me: “Give me stuff on Valentine’s Day. I am fucking entitled to it and if you don’t I will not love you anymore and I will dump you.”
Rather–
Me: “Hey sweetie, I know last year Valentine’s was low key and we didn’t exchange gifts, but I really want to this year. Flowers or a teddy bear would be nice….”
Boyfriend: “Ok, thanks for letting me know.”
I was exercising good communication skills, as opposed to hinting or using reverse psychology or other similar games people typically play in relationships. Some people are just not stellar at remembering to give gifts. My boyfriend happens to be one of them. So, instead of getting my hopes up and then feelings hurt, I let him know that yes, I would like a gift.
Now, how you handle your romantic relationships is up to you. You are perfectly entitled to feel the way you do. However, in my relationship. this is what works and both parties are happy.
This is neither here nor there, as this was more supposed to be a response to certain feminist critques of Valentine’s Day and how it is a shallow holiday that requires men to bater gifts for sex. I was simply pointing out that while I am a feminist and I can see how the media and our culture proagates this stereotype, I still enjoy Valentine’s day and all of it’s frivolous glory.
I do find it incredibly rude that you veered off track adn hinted that I am a leech. Nothing could be further from the truth. My boyfriend is still a student, while I have a full time job. We try to be as fair as possible in our gift exchanges, using money to visit each other, adn paying for stuff when we go out. Next time, please, stick to the content and argue THAT, not attack the author’s personhood. Especially when you know nothing about the person.
February 19, 2009 at 6:45 pm
David
You say “remembering to give gifts”, as if he’s obligated to do so. That’s my problem. You shouldn’t be telling him you want gifts.
Telling someone you want gifts isn’t good communication. It’s acting entitled. You are expressing that you want something, and within that, is implied that you will be disappointed if you don’t receive what you’ve demanded. (However gentle the demands are.)
That’s my problem. If someone gets you something without being asked or told, cool. If you tell them to get you something, you’re not giving them a choice, and it’s not so much a gift anymore.
Well, as for the leech comment, when a woman tells me that I am to get her something, she’s a leech. Period. If I buy a woman something out of the kindness of my heart, hooray. If she TELLS me to buy her a gift? That’s not a gift. That’s a leech who is using me to pad her collection of stuff.
Not sure what that has to do with someone’s “personhood”.
I just don’t care for women acting so very entitled to “gifts” and “rewards” for being in a relationship. Disgusts me.
February 19, 2009 at 9:13 pm
goingtomontreal
Ok…so basically what you are saying is asking for things you want or need in a relationship is acting “entitled” ir being demanding? So in other words…
Let’s say there are two people in a relationship. One has a huge sex drive, the other has zero. The one who wants more sexual contact asks the other for it. The other cannot provide. They end the relationship.
You are basically implying that asking for ANYTHING that might be important to you in a relationship…sex, gifts, emotional availability… is considered demanding.
To me, receiving a gift, no matter how small, inexpensive, or REQUESTED, is important because it shows that my boyfriend gave a damn enough to go to the store, pick up something spend a couple bucks on me. It might be trite to some, but to me it is important. And if that’s important, I should be allowed to ask for it in a relationship.
I find it offensive and patronizing that you would rather put a woman down who is in touch with what she wants (even if it’s a little trite) than acknowledge that not everyone runs their relationship the same way. It does not make them bad people, or shallow people, or leeches.
I guess this is why I am not dating you, or someone like you.
February 19, 2009 at 9:42 pm
David
k…so basically what you are saying is asking for things you want or need in a relationship is acting “entitled” ir being demanding? So in other words…
Flowers, candy, teddy bears, these things are not “needed”.
You shouldn’t need gifts to function in a relationship. Hinting around whatever particular item you may want for a holiday or birthday, should your partner not know what it is to get you is one thing.
Outright saying “I want a gift” for something like Valentine’s is entitlement.
You are basically implying that asking for ANYTHING that might be important to you in a relationship…sex, gifts, emotional availability… is considered demanding.
Well, yeah. It is. To ask for something that wasn’t provided freely, is in fact, demanding it. Also, if gifts are important to you in a relationship, then you might very well be in one for the wrong reasons.
I just think that one knows the kind of person they’re getting into one with, when they get into one. If you know they aren’t emotionally available, or don’t have a high sex drive, to demand they change that is really rude and again, more entitlement.
(As an aside: When sex in a relationship is important to a man, and not the woman, he’s expected to have sex based on her time frames. It seems you think that when the opposite holds, that he should make concessions, and give her more sex than he wants to have.)
To me, receiving a gift, no matter how small, inexpensive, or REQUESTED, is important because it shows that my boyfriend gave a damn enough to go to the store, pick up something spend a couple bucks on me.
And that’s why many men consider women to be materialistic. You rate how much he cares about you, based on what he spends on you? That’s the gist I’m getting there. That’s… really screwed up.
And again, when you request it, thereby saying “You HAVE to get me a gift”, it’s not really “thoughtful”, anymore. At least, not to me. If your favorite pair of jeans has become weatherbeaten, and worn, and you don’t ever say a word, and he notices, and when you come home from work, the old ones aren’t on the hanger anymore, and they’ve been replaced with an identical pair that isn’t falling apart, that’s a thoughtful gift.
To say “My jeans are tore up, buy me new ones” doesn’t create a thoughtful gift, it just creates a demand. It’s saying “I want a new pair of jeans, but I don’t want to spend my own money on them. You do it.”
I don’t know why there’s this disconnect, that you can’t seem to really see my point from my point of view, here.
I find it offensive and patronizing that you would rather put a woman down who is in touch with what she wants (even if it’s a little trite) than acknowledge that not everyone runs their relationship the same way. It does not make them bad people, or shallow people, or leeches.
I’ll put down whomever I please, really.
A woman measuring my affection based on what money I spend on her is not “in touch with what she wants”. She’s just greedy and materialistic, and should be cut from my life with all due speed.
Demanding gifts, though, DOES make you a shallow leech. If you want something, buy it yourself.
Gifts should be given freely, out of whatever feelings the giver decides to attach. They should never be requested. You don’t ask for a gift.
If a gift is assumed, such as a holiday or birthday, and you’re asked for ideas of what you want, that’s fine. But you don’t just say “I require a gift today to prove you love me.”. That’s just shallow.
I guess this is why I am not dating you, or someone like you.
I guess this is why I dump a lot of women like you.
February 20, 2009 at 12:03 am
goingtomontreal
Listen here: there is a huge difference between someone relying on a partner to lavish expensive luxuries on them on a regular basis and a person asking their boyfriend for flowers on Valentine’s Day. The situations you are describe are reminiscent of the “gold digger” stereotype. There is a popular male attitude that characterizes all women as such. Well, hold the phone, because you are slippery-sloping from “telling your boyfriend you would like a Valentine’s Day gift” to equating love with gifts. Notice how I didn’t say that my boyfriend had to buy me a Tiffany’s ring to “earn my love.” Now, let me to tell you my actual story:
My boyfriend drove to NC from GA to visit me on Valentine’s day. He had no gift for me when I gave him my gifts because he was concerned his check would not make it through to get me some flowers. I didn’t pout, cry, whine, or attack with the passive aggressive. I simply said “I understand.” Then, on the way home from our dinner date, we stopped at a store to buy flowers b/c they would be cheaper, we assumed. Well, there wasn’t any nice bouquets left, so instead he bought me the next season of “Friends” something I would get use out of and we both enjoy.
Now, I feel you are directing a lot of venom towards me that has nothing to do with Kacie Versaci, a stranger on the internet. It sounds like a lot of past relationships have stung you and you are having separating those issues from a pretty silly post I wrote on my blog. This is a nowhere argument.
Also: let’s face it. Gifts ARE important to people. They are tokens of affection. Everyone likes getting gifts, and the emotions surrounding them will always color people’s relationships. Maybe in some ways, yes, it is a little selfish to tell a partner you would like a gift for a holiday. But for me, and my boyfriend, it works. If it didn’t, he would either a) take it up with me himself or b) not stay with me. But for us, IT WORKS, so why should you even spare a thought towards it?
(As an aside: When sex in a relationship is important to a man, and not the woman, he’s expected to have sex based on her time frames. It seems you think that when the opposite holds, that he should make concessions, and give her more sex than he wants to have.)
Where in my metaphor did I assign one partner as the male and one as the female, and did I imply EVER this idea?? People should be SEXUALLY COMPATIBLE and have time frames that can coexist 95% of the time.
Finally, I will leave you this: The most prized gift my boyfriend ever gave me is a card he made me, out of notebook paper, with a drawing on the front of us and a note reminiscent of grade-school romance.
Really, this post was meant as a small defense against the feminist blogsphere condemning Valentine’s day, not as an expose of the gift-giving dynamics in my relationship.
February 24, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Faggots
Flowers, candy, teddy bears, these things are not “needed”.
Hence, why it says in her post, “asking for things you want or need.” Note the bold print.
You shouldn’t need gifts to function in a relationship. Hinting around whatever particular item you may want for a holiday or birthday, should your partner not know what it is to get you is one thing.
Outright saying “I want a gift” for something like Valentine’s is entitlement.
While my boyfriend and I didn’t exchange gifts for V-Day, you can be sure that I will be getting a gift for my birthday. And I will tell him what I want. And hinting at gifts is much worse than simply saying exactly what is desired because it fosters an environment of passive communication. As DRF said, last V-Day SHE made dinner, and SHE went to the effort of preparing a romantic evening. In a relationship, there is a certain degree of reciprocity, and without that, a relationship becomes purely one-sided.
You are basically implying that asking for ANYTHING that might be important to you in a relationship…sex, gifts, emotional availability… is considered demanding.
Well, yeah. It is. To ask for something that wasn’t provided freely, is in fact, demanding it.
So…asking my parents for gas money in a very polite manner and from a subservient position is a demand?
Also, if gifts are important to you in a relationship, then you might very well be in one for the wrong reasons.
Again, reciprocity is the issue. Not necessarily gifts. Perhaps DRF’s boyfriend could have written her a sonnet, and she would have been ecstatic over that.
I just think that one knows the kind of person they’re getting into one with, when they get into one. If you know they aren’t emotionally available, or don’t have a high sex drive, to demand they change that is really rude and again, more entitlement.
Umm…since when do you post a relationship resume before entering into one? Most people will, as the ever-changing rules of identity dictate, act differently from person to person.
And that’s why many men consider women to be materialistic.
Statistics, please? Anecdotal evidence of you and your pals isn’t quite up to snuff in supporting this statement.
You rate how much he cares about you, based on what he spends on you? That’s the gist I’m getting there. That’s… really screwed up.
You have created quite the conclusion-drawing fallacy. When in her post did DRF say that she rates her boyfriend’s care for her on gifts?
And again, when you request it, thereby saying “You HAVE to get me a gift”, it’s not really “thoughtful”, anymore. At least, not to me.
Okay, I think it’s important that we highlight something in your statement:
At least, not to me.
not to me.
me.
Since when does YOUR OPINION dictate how others’ relationships should function? Getting back to the actual argument, there’s still the element of gift selection, which shows thoughtfulness. A teddy bear may appeal to one person, but not the next.
If your favorite pair of jeans has become weatherbeaten, and worn, and you don’t ever say a word, and he notices, and when you come home from work, the old ones aren’t on the hanger anymore, and they’ve been replaced with an identical pair that isn’t falling apart, that’s a thoughtful gift.
Actually, I’d be pretty pissed if someone threw out my favorite jeans and tried to assess my size. They’d probably get it wrong, but I’m freakishly tall. However, I’m willing to acknowledge that this is MY OPINION on getting a “gift” like that.
To say “My jeans are tore up, buy me new ones” doesn’t create a thoughtful gift, it just creates a demand. It’s saying “I want a new pair of jeans, but I don’t want to spend my own money on them. You do it.”
God, your arguments are so reductive of the opposing point of view. This doesn’t even warrant a response because it’s so outside of what DRF is saying.
I don’t know why there’s this disconnect, that you can’t seem to really see my point from my point of view, here.
As I have a strong tendency to say lately, I see your point of view, but I do NOT RESPECT it.
I’ll put down whomever I please, really.
Ahh, the warm reassurance of teh intarwebz. Otherwise, you’re just an outright ass in person.
A woman measuring my affection based on what money I spend on her is not “in touch with what she wants”. She’s just greedy and materialistic, and should be cut from my life with all due speed.
The problem with your perspective is that it’s a binary. Your view of women is that they’re either silent about wanting something or their materialistic bitches. There’s no middle ground.
Demanding gifts, though, DOES make you a shallow leech. If you want something, buy it yourself.
Get it through your skull: ASKING IS NOT DEMANDING.
Gifts should be given freely, out of whatever feelings the giver decides to attach. They should never be requested. You don’t ask for a gift.
I give my boyfriend gifts on spur of the moment occasions, and I also give him things when he asks for them. If I tell him I don’t have the resources to get him a gift that he asks for, then he understands. Again, you’re being very small-minded in your conception of relationships. Oh, and you’re also applying your opinion as though it’s fact. Ass.
If a gift is assumed, such as a holiday or birthday, and you’re asked for ideas of what you want, that’s fine. But you don’t just say “I require a gift today to prove you love me.”. That’s just shallow.
Don’t ever write a novel. You suck at dialogue.
I guess this is why I dump a lot of women like you.
Is that supposed to be an assertion of your masculinity? Because I’m not really impressed.
February 28, 2009 at 3:34 pm
crankosaur
David is obviously a total misogynistic douchehound whose existence is not even worth acknowledging, so with that being said I will stop acknowledging it.
I don’t necessarily think that Valentine’s Day is inherently sexist trash, but it feels like society is trying its damnedest to make it that way. Still, I think it’s possible to celebrate it in a nice, personal way that isn’t anti-feminist. A couple years ago Mr. Crankosaur and I were just getting over a rough patch and, like you did, I asked if we could have a nice Valentine’s Day. He bought me candy and some sweet Vans canvas slip-ons and we watched Star Wars and I bought us a pizza and it was completely bad ass, and had absolutely nothing to do with Kay Jewelers commercials. Valentine’s Day just needs to be rescued from the purveyors of Pajamagrams.
February 28, 2009 at 8:52 pm
David
David is obviously a total misogynistic douchehound whose existence is not even worth acknowledging, so with that being said I will stop acknowledging it.
What have I said that’s “misogynistic”? Saying that I don’t like the idea of someone demanding I buy them a gift is misogyny, now? Since when?
If you’re going to throw insults and BS at people, you should back it up with actual facts. What you’re doing is complete garbage, and contemptible.
Considering all I’ve said is that when a woman demands gifts of me, I tell her no, does that mean you think that if a man refuses any request a woman makes, that means he hates women?
Seriously, if you’re going to just toss rhetoric and buzzwords like “misogyny”, please do apply them where they actually make sense.
Disagreeing with a woman is not misogyny, nor is refusing requests/demands from one. Feminism is not “I am woman, therefore I get everything I want, 24/7 forever”. Exercising my personal agency to refuse to spend my money on someone just because they want something is not misogyny.
I’m sorry that you find my refusal to buy into entitled greed “misogyny”, but it doesn’t make you correct in that assumption. It just shows your actual colors.