Quite a few comments have been left on other posts concerning my foul mouth, so I thought the conversation deserved its own post because I wanted to first address a few points of my own and secondly, allow the debate to take place on its own space rather than high-jacking another thread, which I hate.
OK, so for this to take place, I am going to address a few comments left by a couple of readers.
This was the first one:
Fred says:
Interesting post, some good points. One bit of advice: drop “for fuck’s sake” from your vocabulary. It’s crude, grammatically incorrect, and makes you sound like a foul mouthed little tramp.
You seem to have a brain in your head, but using phrases like this makes you sound like a teenager.
Now, my BIGGEST CONCERN was the phrase “foul mouthed little tramp.” Tramp is a gendered term in our culture. It implies a woman who is loose or not classy. And the “little” just makes me boil. If you want to condescend to someone, put them at the level of a child. Christ.
So that was the first one. After my response, which I also pointed out that dismissing my opinion because of my language was just another attempt to control me and the ideas for which I stand, Fred responds:
So it’s sexist to point out bad grammar? I think your comment says a lot more about you than it does about me.
Congratulations. You have made my point for me far more convincingly than I could have done it myself. Well done, my angry young feminist, well done. The feminist movement is well represented.
Oh, and by the way, lose the caps lock key. It makes you sound shrill.
No dear Fred, it is NOT sexist to point out bad grammar. It is sexist to patronize me and put me at the level of a child. And it’s very sexist to use terms like “tramp” and “shrill.”
The final comment in this trio stuck in my craw a bit less, mostly because he didn’t call me a shrill tramp, but it was important to address non-the-less:
It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. Obviously, it’s your blog, and you can say whatever you want. But if you want people to seriously consider your points of view and opinions, be it on this blog or in real life, you’ll have a much better chance of being taken seriously if you write like an educated adult rather than a foul mouthed teenager, and I would say that whether you are a man or a woman.
“Asshole”? “Dumbfuck”? “Fuck you”? Inspiring language indeed from an aspiring teacher.
My first point is to address that unnecessary jab at the end. And it is this: all of us bloggers have lives outside of our blogs and our blog persona may not be the same one we present in other situations. We all wear different masks at different times. So I really think that my language on my blog has little to do with the way I act at my job which happens to be teaching. We cannot (and should not) all be the same in every situation. That is not to say I am untrue to myself at my job or on my blog or whatever. It IS to say that we cannot let how we act in one situation define the way we act in all. There are varying degrees of our true selves and what we choose to present to any given audience will not necessarily predict what we present to the next one.
Phew, glad I got that out. Now to the real meat of the problem. Cursing, in both these (and others I don’t really feel like posting) comments and in other instances seems to take on gendered, classist, and maturity bends. It’s low class, shrill, trampy, slutty, unintelligent, crass, and unladylike to curse. I actually had a pretty foul-mouthed boyfriend in high school and one day I dropped the f-bomb when I lost a rousing game of DDR and he gave me a significant look and told me he found that pretty unattractive because ladies don’t curse. I think that sums it up pretty nicely. When a girl curses, it is so much more shocking and needs calling attention to than when a guy does. Even at the age of 15.
I still stand by my original point that people (namely men because, surprisingly, all of these commenters are male) would rather criticize my language, or grammar or spelling or word choice or hair-do or age or relationship status or weight or even my blog layout than they would MY ACTUAL IDEAS OR OPINIONS. It’s just like when someone tries to call feminists ugly or hairy or lesbians. It is, ladies and gentlemen, an attempt to try and control us and our message. When you are threatened by something, and let’s face it, a lot of men FEEL threatened by feminism (even though they shouldn’t because lord knows feminism benefits men AND women) it is so much easier to dismiss it for petty reasons than it is to face the actual dialogue. If you notice, plenty of dissenting commenters like to point out how “poorly” we write or how bad our spelling is as if that somehow negates our whole points.
Well let me say something. Not all of us have editors. And many times, when my fingers are flying across the keyboard because I am fired up about some injustice in the world, I am not thinking about grammar or style or spelling (though Firefox’s nifty spell-check feature does help me). I am thinking about content. I am thinking about what I want to say. Who gives a damn if a few comma splices or misplaced modifiers sneak in? It doesn’t erase WHAT I am saying.
And about my cursing. No I will never stop. It’s part of my style on this blog: that I am very very very very angry and I will express it as such. Do you want to know why I am angry? Well the short story is that we live in a racist, classist, sexist world and people would rather poo-poo my crass word choice then actually care about the issues. The long story? Well, it’s my whole blog, really, but I would urge you to start here, here, and here. I am angry because 1 in four women will be the victim of attempted rape. I am angry because my students, who for the most part are minorities and live in a low-income community, are 9th graders on an average 3rd grade reading level and go hungry every day. I am angry because women are beat by their husbands, children are raped, girls are sexualized, people are starving, and my status as a full human being is questioned every day because of the business between my legs. And all that anger, frustration, and rage comes out, a lot, in the form of a good-old fashioned FUCK YOU.
So please, whether its by calling us ugly, calling our grammar into question, or hating on our foul-mouths, Fred, and others, you will never silence us.

35 comments
Comments feed for this article
August 17, 2008 at 6:27 pm
D
No one is trying to silence you.
The reason people hinge on the language is the reason I pointed out. (That you deleted, despite it being polite and respectful.)
In a debate setting, which any debate coach or team will tell you, you should stun someone with the strength of your argument, not the foulness of your language.
If you have a strong, good point to make, make it. It will stand on it’s own merit. Peppering it with “Fuck, shit, fuck fuck damn fuck shit” makes it hard to see your point because of the way you’re saying it.
I’m not at all trying to silence you. Quite the opposite, really.
Now, if I had made this comment like this:
No one said to shut the fuck up, for fuck’s sake!
People notice your goddamn fucking language because it’s all you fucking say, damn.
When you debate, quit fucking cursing, it’s fucking stupid!
Let your fucking argument speak for it’s damn self, instead of saying fuck a lot!
I don’t want you to fucking be quiet, I want you to word your shit better!
Which argument would you be more inclined to take seriously?
August 17, 2008 at 7:10 pm
fredh
But you see, you’ve just made my point. This post was fucking brilliant.
In this post you come across as an intelligent, articulate person with some important and interesting to say.
I am never “intimidated” by feminists, or anyone else, for that matter. But I do have a lot more respect for the intelligent, articulate feminist who wrote this post.
How you say something is as important as what you say. You may not like it, but that’s how it works.
August 17, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Holly
Well said, lady.
August 17, 2008 at 8:05 pm
fred
Now that said, I did think of something else which I found a somewhat puzzling. There seems to be two sets of rules here.
Rule 1: Kacie is free to use any sort of language she wants to, but should never be taken to task for it, because to do so is sexist.
Rule 2: Fred is NOT allowed to use any type of language he wants to, but instead must pick and choose his words VERY carefully lest he step on a feminist land mine.
So why is every word in the English language available for Kacie’s use, but not Fred’s? Now who’s trying to control whom?
Just a question. Otherwise, good post.
August 17, 2008 at 8:34 pm
goingtomontreal
D– I deleted that comment by accident, actually. I was just going through quickly and I am not gonna lie, I was a bit hungover. I will get the copy in my email and repost for you. Now, I understand the point you are making, but again, this is a casual space where I do not feel the need to clean up my language. And frankly, I try to only use such words when I am really pissed off for emphasis. I do not use it for the sake of using it.
Fred– Yes, I control the comments here because this is MY space. If you had a blog, you could do the same. The stuff I want to control is the sexist and racist slurs people like to use sometimes (of which I avoid, ps) and then the useless comments. Again, this is my space so of course I control the content. Don’t like it? Start your own blog. Ta da!!! Also, I found your above comment quite patronizing and rude.
August 18, 2008 at 12:19 am
Bonnie
Fred: Yes, your comment is rude. This is not your space; you are here at the sufferance of the blog owner. You do not have a constitutional right to post. This is one of the great things about Blogger (where I am; I don’t know if WordPress is the same)–I can delete any abusive twit I like, and they can’t do a thing about it.
Also, “how you say something is as important is what you say” is often a sneaky, underhanded way of dismissing women’s rightful anger, along with their concerns. It smacks of white-boy entitlement; in other words, “You need to say things just the right way before we’ll listen to them, and we probably won’t listen even then.”
See why that would infuriate most people? And why you sound like a condescending chauvinist piglet for even bringing up the subject?
If you really wanted to contribute to the dialogue, you would first of all shut the frak up and listen, and then comment based on that. But as all you seem to want to do is pick apart the manner of delivery instead of addressing the substance, I’m not holding my breath.
August 18, 2008 at 12:38 am
Jenn
Cussing at generalities or random social phenomenon does not a bad mouth make. I know exactly how you feel. People that dismiss a very long and theoretical post because I said fuck and shit a couple of times get the finger. It’s our writing style, if they don’t like it, nobody is forcing them to stay.
Besides, if you wrote a blog like a pompous pig-headed asshole nobody would want to read it. It’s fun to read something highly theoretical and anti-status quo as long as it doesn’t get too academic. Once it gets too pedantic, then I just hit the back button. I figure that what we write about inspires us to towering rages of cursing fury, so why censor that in the name of a few condescending assholes?
August 18, 2008 at 1:00 am
JeezLouise
So, I saw in one of your other comments where you list your full name and decided to google it to see what popped up. Obviously a few feminist related things but next to last on page 1 I found this gem. I laughed, given everything you stand for and the anatomy you proclaim to have.
IGI 2: A UK Fan Site
Trackback by Nude sadha video clips — 16/2/2008 @ 14:48 PM. Kacie big tit tit, Kacie big tit and Kacie. Trackback by Kacie big tit — 16/2/2008 @ 14:54 PM …
projectigi2.co.uk/news/?p=110 – Similar pages
Overall, good post.
August 18, 2008 at 1:19 am
goingtomontreal
OH NOES!! A RANDOM PORNO SITE GENERATED MY NAME!!
Please.
August 18, 2008 at 1:54 am
JeezLouise
Just found it funny, that’s all. No need for the condescending attitude.
August 18, 2008 at 2:08 am
goingtomontreal
Really?
What do you call this: “given everything you stand for and the anatomy you proclaim to have”
August 18, 2008 at 2:11 am
goingtomontreal
Bonnie and Jenn–
thank you. you further articulated my thoughts exactly.
August 18, 2008 at 2:12 am
goingtomontreal
Oh christ, JeezLouise. I thought you wrote “autonomy” not “anatomy.” That’s why I thought you were being a jerk.
My apologies. One day I shall learn to read better.
Please forgive my rudeness.
And yes, my boobs are actually a burdensome size.
August 18, 2008 at 6:19 am
Ryan
Telling somebody to clean up their language is about as lame as playing internet grammar police.
I think a lot of this boils down to some people being offended by ideas presented here. They know that they don’t have carte blanche to spout off overtly offensive shit because their post will get deleted. Instead, they have a whine fest over language and how the posts are just “not as pursuasive as they could be.”
Complaining about swearing is in no way an attempt to improve the discourse; it is an attempt to control the discussion. It is so transparent.
August 18, 2008 at 7:26 am
Jessiawesome
You get a lot of trolls on your blog, Kacie. :<
fred needs to go fuck off– oh wait now i sound like a tramp. :,<
August 18, 2008 at 3:47 pm
earlgreyrooibos
We cannot (and should not) all be the same in every situation. That is not to say I am untrue to myself at my job or on my blog or whatever. It IS to say that we cannot let how we act in one situation define the way we act in all. There are varying degrees of our true selves and what we choose to present to any given audience will not necessarily predict what we present to the next one.
Damn straight. Also, fuck yeah.
I will now return to my regularly scheduled day job, where I will make a point of not cursing, no matter how poorly my computer behaves.
August 18, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Puni
The I-will-ignore-all-the-good-points-you-made-and-all-the-good-ideas-you-
had-but-I-will-give-you-advice-how-to-write-ladylike-because-
wimmenz-never-have-good-points-and-ideas-anyway-so-at-least-I-
should-show-them-how-to-behave- thing is like…soooooo old!
I can’t remeber that any guy was told to avoid any curses because that, you know, would be shrill and it would be impossible to take him seriously if he uses any bad lanuage. But women are told to do so. Why?
Everyone has his/her own way of writing.
If you can’t take her seriously because she used some “fuck”s or “shit”s then I think your problem is not her writing style.
I can’t understand why so many guys want to piss you off.
Best way to get rid of them is to ignore them I think.
Besides, I like the way you write, it seems so authentic =)
August 18, 2008 at 9:34 pm
goingtomontreal
Thank you so much, Puni!
August 18, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Lemur
Yeah, Kacie, you sound like a little tramp! You better watch out or some dude’ll teach you a lesson! /sarcasm
Srsly, I just got eyeball strain they rolled so hard at that guy. Pompous, condescending douchebag. I’m amazed he didn’t tell you ‘you won’t get a man with that kind of language.’ Bonnie’s comment was dead on. Trying to tell us what language we should use to express our anger and outrage is just… ridiculous. So Kacie FTW- I like your blog, and I love a feminist who says fuck, especially since I do it all the time. Fuck fuck fuck fuck.
August 19, 2008 at 4:13 am
Megan
This is the first post of yours I’ve read, so I might be misunderstanding, but it sounds like you were just cussing whereas “fred” was directing sexist insults at you. I would agree that the latter is far more offensive, especially on a feminist blog. Everyone fucks and everyone shits, but only women are be shrill little tramps.
August 19, 2008 at 4:14 am
Megan
er, subtract the “be”, sorry. Should proofread more carefully.
August 20, 2008 at 6:51 am
lala
Dear God. This guy tells you not to swear and immediately follows by throwing a sexual slur at you? It must be wonderful to have that kind of ego.
August 21, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Jess
FEMINISTS SHOULD BE POLITE AND DEFERENTIAL!!!! LADIES DON’T USE THE SWEARS!!!!
fuck that dickheaded dumbfuck fuckwad fuck.
August 21, 2008 at 4:41 pm
MzStilletto
That was just wonderful. Hot damn, I love this blog.
Reminds me of when my husband decides I’m “not worth listening to” anymore… the other day he decided he didn’t like what I was saying, and his response was: “FUCK you swear a lot” and automatically dismissed the points I was making. I tried pointing out the ridiculous irony in his statement, but he would have nothing of it. So I laughed my ass off at him while he sat and pouted.
I was also recently berated online by someone just over half my age for swearing. He said “Girls aren’t supposed to swear” and I think he might have even used the word dainty. My response: “Holy FUCK, what DECADE is this???” He laughed uncomfortably and said no more.
So, my general response to this kind of thing: Fuck That Shit.
I saw someone once with a T-Shirt that read: “Fuck You, You Fuckin’ Fuck!” I want that shirt.
August 21, 2008 at 5:04 pm
fredd
Well said! Nice to see the feminist movement is in such good hands.
August 23, 2008 at 2:46 am
ororo
It’s concern trolling. Leaving aside the fact that your anger was dismissed and that you were called a degrading name, when someone of the privileged group wags his finger at a member of the unprivileged group, he’s putting the burden of his hearing your message on how you act. “If you weren’t so angry, I’d listen to you. You’d get further with you message if you smiled and were a bit nicer. Blah, blah, blah. I don’t want to hear what you’re saying so I’ll fall back on using gendered language to admonish you. Don’t you feel bad now because a man has withheld his approval from you, little girl?”
I’ve had it happen to me too and guess what. It only made me more angry.
August 24, 2008 at 2:16 am
Amelia
I am with you.
And I love you.
August 24, 2008 at 3:04 pm
goingtomontreal
I love you too, Amelia.
And I want to design a tattoo option for you, but I don’t have photoshop on my new machine! BAH!!!
August 24, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Amelia
Aw. Well, I would love to have you design a tattoo for me. So if all you need is time to find photoshop somewhere to work on it, I can wait. But if it won’t work out, that’s fine, too.
I came back here to say that yesterday I had a similar experience with one of my non-feminist friendly friends accusing me of making all feminists look bad because I said “fuck” a few times (we were discussing choice and the availability of contraceptives/abortion). Grr.
August 24, 2008 at 7:10 pm
nimbrethil
I’m gonna make an attempt here:
Fred, that thing where you follow that statement with “so its sexist to point out bad grammar”? Marks you for the raging idiot you are. No, it isn’t sexist to point out bad grammar, and nobody said that it was. The part that was sexist would be the “foul mouthed little tramp” bit. You could have easily made the same statement without that phrase, but you chose instead to inject it.
What’s hilarious to me is where you say that you think it says more about her than you. YOU attempted to cast your remarks in a completely different light by excising your sexist quip from the equation. Resorting to censoring your own statement in order to make yourself sound like the reasonable person is the mark of a troll who knows he has lost the argument and cannot save face without editing his original statement.
You know what you said was indefensible, so you’re trying to draw attention away from it. Sorry, pal, you lost the high ground a while ago, not that you ever really had it to begin with.
Now that I’ve wasted my time on a completely unoriginal concern troll too caught up in his own delusion of moral superiority, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate this article. Asshats like Fred might be amusing if they weren’t so damned common.
Here’s another post on the topic I thought you might be interested in reading.
The Leg-Biting Bitch Loves to Fucking Swear
Naturally, of course, that was written in response to yet another concern troll.
August 25, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Shaina
Why does this guy even care? Does it really matter what kind of language you use to express your personal thoughts on your own blog?
August 27, 2008 at 8:38 pm
August
It’s cathartic to cuss. Sometimes those words are just the perfect ones to express just how angry, frustrated, lost, or [whatever] one feels. It doesn’t mean that the message is any less worthy of being heard.
“Foul mouthed little tramp” pretty much only means one thing. That unless you conform to his idea of what is acceptable, then you’re just a dirty and nasty woman-child.
Nice blog. I’d love to subscribe via email if there were an option.
September 4, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Watch your mouth « Feminocracy
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October 9, 2008 at 6:40 am
Turquoise`
There’s something terrible going on in the world and the youth of the internet. It actually encourages me to use bad language with my fantastic mouth.
Every time I search on “how to stop using bad language” (because I use a lot of it), I find it impossible because the advice is ONLY for kids and women!!!
Why the hell should we stop????
So … some of the kids grow up male and legit users of bad language? The rest of us should make do without that armour and aggressive weapon of self-protection – that YOU offer YOURSELF and your gender in adulthood!!
(Yeah, start with trying to stop an adult male from using bad language, Mr. Fred, someone a LOT bigger than you to get an idea of how a woman or a kid feels in a dimorphic world.)
Aren’t you expecting women to be defenceless and learn helplessness, silly moms and judgemental boys?
For Fucks Sake, CHANGE YOURSELVES, GUYS!
October 12, 2008 at 11:34 pm
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