I know I have been mentioning my troll lately, but after the last post, when I was greeted with yet another slew of copy-and-paste comments from him in my comment moderation queue, it struck me that this whole troll thing is really about male privilege and him trying to assert his dominance over me.
It’s no surprise to my other feminist bloggers that the majority of trolls are male. Yes, there are a couple of female MRAs and anti-feminists thrown into the mix, but really, this is a male phenomenon. And though they will probably assert otherwise, it is obvious that a lot of the trolling-type content comes from the insecurity of losing one’s place of power…and the complete shock of dealing with a female that is daring to speak out against that power.
Even if the troll’s comments are actually coming from a place where he thinks his ideas are not being influenced by fear, his tactics still scream PRIVILEGE.
He has harasses, ignores the content on the site, resorts to name-calling, ridicules the blog’s owner, gets into it with other readers, and refuses to open his mind. He relies on assumptions and stalker-like tactics. He is indignant that we refuse to “hear his voice” either by ignoring him or out-right deleting his comments. And he operates with the attitude that he is right, and all other ideas are WRONG.
How does this relate to privilege–well, the main way is the complete dismissal of ideas outside of the realm of his privileged experience, and he refuses to acknowledge the mere EXISTENCE of other experiences, simply because his white, heterosexual Christian goggles have been on all of his life, and when he views so-called facts and opinions about these other experiences, he either does not know how to or does not want to remove them
Thoughts?
30 comments
Comments feed for this article
May 8, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Artemis
It’s so weird that you wrote this today, b/c I was moderating my comment queue and I came across this guy who left not one, but two, ugly comments regarding my blog name. Namely, he insisted that I change the name. I thought he was just a spammer who went around several blogs doing that, but then I checked my blog stats, and I saw that I was receiving views from a link on another blog. When I check it out: it’s the same guy, and he dedicated an entire post to my blog, calling me a “dumb bitch” b/c I had a blog name that he fancied for himself. Wow! I wonder where it stems from, this innate hatred that so many males feel for us.
May 8, 2008 at 9:31 pm
goingtomontreal
Thank you for this.
My troll did something similar. His exact words were “can you believe there are people this stupid out there.” It was immature, hateful, and just plain silly.
But hey, whatever gets me hits!!!
<3
May 8, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Chris
He answered his three questions and escaped from his bridge and now he doesn’t know how to cope with the wide vast world of society, so he complains about the blogs of others and gets annoyed if people are not paying attention to him. Heh, I think he should be referred to as an Attentioncrat, since he finds made-up words so super useful. I wasn’t going to say Attention-tard though, because I think using language like that is the equivalent of being five and lacking any formal understanding of reality, which could be possible depending on when he escaped from his bridge.
May 8, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Amelia
Yeah, your troll is really creepy/awful. The trolls over at my place stick (generally speaking) to hits at feminists/feminism in general. They rarely make such personal attacks as you have been made to deal with. Sorry about that! I really feel for you, even though your experience has been so much more personal.
May 9, 2008 at 1:49 am
Ashley
I think you hit the nail on the head. FYI, you’ll notice that if you ever dis on a video game, you’ll be spending quite a bit of time moderating… Which says a lot about the troll demographic, I think. People who play video games enough to care THAT much are generally white boys with a lot of time on their hands. In other words… privileged.
May 9, 2008 at 4:35 am
Milli Michaels
Now I can’t be sure, but it seems to me if you’re interested in making the comments stop, you should probably just ignore them. If you think about it, you can look at Pavlov’s dogs and try to condition these unwanted commenters the same way. Remove the reward (attention via commenting back, dedicating posts to), and the behavior will die out eventually. When nasty commenters comment on my blog, which they do periodically, I leave the comments up but don’t acknowledge them in any way. It usually only takes 2 comments without a desired response to stop the commenting. That’s just been my experience.
Maybe you think that you can help educate these commenters? My guess is that it’s not worth your effort, so why waste your energy?
I do have another thought… on taking away the power that the privleged hold over others… Well, I’m sure you’ve heard that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, right? Well, that’s especially true when it comes to persuading. I guess the goal of this blog is to educate people on why the feminist movement is still important, how there are still a lot of ways in which women are oppressed? I know, you feel this is something to be angry about. In some ways, it may be. I’m just saying that if you wish to sway people to your cause, it may help your rhetoric to be more proactive and postitive rather than being down on men… After all, the men today haven’t been the ones responsible for the patriarchy; it’s been many years in the making. If anything, some of them might be able to see the feminists side if the attitude were toned down a little. That’s only if the end goal is to persuade. If I have perceived the goal of the site incorrectly and it’s purpose is simply to provide you a place to express your opinions and not have the ultimate goal of getting more people behind the cause, then disregard what I said.
Anyway, you asked for thoughts, so there you have some.
Oh, I have a question: What do you mean by “MRAs”?
May 9, 2008 at 4:44 am
Amelia
I agree! The post on my blog about GTA4 got a lot of trollish comments from readers who never read the blog until that post was put up. Very interesting point, Ashley May.
May 9, 2008 at 11:38 am
Holly
My site has been trolled several times. In fact, just about every time I post my writing on ShoutWire.com my hits go off the charts and I have to spend pretty much an entire day moderating.
May 9, 2008 at 1:14 pm
goingtomontreal
Hey Milli–
You are pretty much right–this was my last post that I will write that has been inspired by your husband.
I understand what you are saying too, about positive rhetoric; I like to think my writing, while a little pissed off sometimes, really is about talking about the issues and letting other people decide.
Oh, and MRAs= Mens Rights Activists. Sorry I didn’t write that out. I’m a bit lazy.
May 9, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Ryan
I’m not so sure how much this relates to male privilege. Some people just have a really tough time “letting it go” when somebody else thinks differently than them. In this case it sounds like there is a huge disagreement. Instead of discussing, he would rather name call because it probably bothers him all the more that the person who holds very different ideas is intelligent. Gender is a pretty basic/fundamental thing and being wrong about that… panic button! I think that is a little different from what you were saying. The statement, “can you believe there are people this stupid out there” really translate into “I cannot imagine/believe there are people who are not stupid that think this way.” Not taking it seriously is a pretty effective way to, well, “feel” really “correct.”
As far as the “positive rhetoric” goes, it is an interesting question. I think I remember reading somewhere else here that essentially you are mad, have a legitimate complaint, and are not going to apologize for that. There are people out there trying to calmly and rationally explain “feminist” positions so there is not really a reason to homogenize things, especially if people enjoy your way of saying things. Your writing style has a sort of visceral “realness” to it; it will not be everybody’s cup of tea *shrug* oh well.
Oh, Amelia and Ashley, about GT4; let me put this into context. Go ahead and tell a Playstation 3 fan that Halo 3 is awesome and Xbox 360s are so cool. They will explode. Or suggest something like “you should need to be at least 17 to buy MA 17+ games” (reasonable if you ask me) and they will go ape shit. I guess my point is that video game players love trolling: anywhere and for any reason. They are frequently unreasonable and obnoxious and it probably has little to nothing to do with white/male privilege. Maybe it somehow boils down to, “things I like cannot be bad!”
May 9, 2008 at 11:16 pm
goingtomontreal
Hi Ryan–
I guess I think it has to do with white, heterosexual privilege because of the way trolls refuse to look at other experiences other than their own, and the refusal to acknowledge that these experiences are difficult and have problems–and that is part of privilege.
And you are right–I shouldn’t give up my voice!
Thanks.
May 10, 2008 at 4:11 am
Renee
I just started my blog three weeks ago and have recently attracted my very own troll. He has been posting several times a day despite being repeatedly told that he is sexist. It seems that the more I engage with him the more heated he becomes. My next tactic is to ignore him. It is ridicules to argue with lunacy anyway.
May 11, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Lindsay
I know when I think about my white privilege, I have to consciously acknowledge that the things I’m doing is dismantling my own, unwarrented power. It’s hard to put it in those terms, but that’s what it is, essentially. Some people just don’t want to give that up, or don’t realize that’s what they have to give up. It’ll make the world better for everyone in the long run, but right then acknowledging privilege and working against that will make him lose power.
May 11, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Red Queen
OH. HEll. YES!
I’m so quoting and linking this.
May 11, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Matthew
I agree, trolls suck. Curiously, the main troll I have had to deal with at the discussion forum was a white female. At least she claimed to be. On the internet there is not always a way to prove it.
In general I think we take trolls too seriously. Ignore them and they go away. Feed them and they stay. Then too, it is important to discern between those who disagree with our own points of view and trolls. Not everyone who disagrees with us is a troll. Some people I nearly eliminated as trolls turned out to be the ones who made the discussion livelier.
May 11, 2008 at 11:25 pm
goingtomontreal
Hi Matthew-
I agree, that there is a distinction between a troll and someone who disagrees with you–a troll DOES disagree with but instead of actually engaging in conversation they just harass…..
There is a line.
But thank you for the insight.
May 12, 2008 at 1:02 am
Red Queen
Just so you know- Matthew is actually my troll. It’s funny that he agrees trolls suck, yet won’t leave off my site despite repeated attempts at banning, blocking and mocking him.
May 12, 2008 at 2:20 am
Ashley
“They are frequently unreasonable and obnoxious and it probably has little to nothing to do with white/male privilege. Maybe it somehow boils down to, ‘things I like cannot be bad!’”
Actually Ryan, I think that’s pretty much the definition of privilege… The virtually unchallenged idea that your values, priorities, and worldview are correct and should be shared by everybody else… In 17-year-old middle class white boys, this presents itself as trolling when someone disses GTA. In 47-year-old middle class white boys, it takes the form of insisting that colleges should focus on teaching “The Great Works of Western Thought,” and ignore all that silly Du Bois and Andrea Smith. Privilege is mostly about things that seem trivial when taken in isolation, but that add up to an entire structure of preferential treatment and devaluation of others.
May 12, 2008 at 12:20 pm
goingtomontreal
Whoa, Red Queen–
He FOLLOWED YOU over here? That is really creepy.
He proves my point well then.
I am sorry I responded to him!
–Kacie
May 12, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Matthew
No, I did not follow anyone. I clicked the link to your article, just like everyone else.
If you are going to have a politically oriented blog it is not reasonable to assume that everyone is going to agree with your point of view. Disagreeing is not trolling. I disagreed with RQ on several issues, it ended there for me. If you cannot accept a different point of view then you should simply disallow comments and keep it all in the small mutual admiration society. When you mock and belittle someone, as RQ has admitted to doing, it is within that persons rights to defend themselves whether you own the blog or not. Period. Bush has the bombs, does that make it right for him to arrogantly threaten countries who do not? No.
May 17, 2008 at 4:40 pm
D
“and refuses to open mind” – so do feminists.
“relies on assumptions” – so do feminists.
“indignant that we refuse to “hear his voice”” – so do feminists.
“And he operates with the attitude that he is right, and all other ideas are WRONG.” – definitely how feminists operate.
“complete dismissal of ideas outside of the realm of experience” – feminists again.
“when he views so-called facts and opinions about these other experiences, he either does not know how to or does not want to remove them” – wow, feminists again.
All I’m saying, is when you’re calling the kettle black, you might want to look in the mirror to verify that you might just be the pot.
May 17, 2008 at 5:42 pm
goingtomontreal
Mild Ennui/D–
you obviously are confused about feminism and just using backlash language to try and silence me. It won’t work.
May 17, 2008 at 6:36 pm
D
“you obviously are confused about feminism and just using backlash language to try and silence me. It won’t work.”
Don’t put words or thoughts in my mouth/head that weren’t there. It’s rude.
I’m simply pointing out a nice bit of hypocrisy on your part. I’m not trying to “silence you”. It’s not all about you, I’m afraid.
I’m just drawing a parallel with what you accuse someone of, and what your movement, and by that extension, you yourself, do.
Nowhere did I try to “silence” you, or tell you to stop talking. So please do stop imagining that I did. It doesn’t reflect well on you, and makes you look overly paranoid.
Feminists do everything you accused your troll of doing. That’s the extent of my statement. That you often happen to be the pot calling the kettle black.
May 17, 2008 at 7:10 pm
goingtomontreal
Don’t put words in MY mouth, Mild Ennui. How can you call my a hypocrite when I have never, on this blog, done any of the things you are claiming? And no matter how much you kick and scream, trolling and playing the devil’s advocate is, at its heart, an attempt to silence someone. If you actually wanted to engage in a real discussion of my post, you wouldn’t have just dismissed it; instead you would have disagreed in an intelligent, respectful manner like some of the above posters.
May 17, 2008 at 7:58 pm
D
I did disagree in an intelligent respectful manner. I didn’t call you names, I didn’t do many of the things you are currently doing.
Such as telling you what your intent was.
You telling me what my intent is, is, “relying on assumptions”.
You’re being indignant that I’m not listening to you and doing what you say.
You’re acting as though you are right, and all other opinions are wrong.
You’re dismissing ideas outside of your realm of experience.
And by telling me that you absolutely do not do these things, and that I’m wrong, you’re seeing facts and opinions about other experiences, and refusing to acknowledge them.
So, you’ve never done anything on that list, right?
Those are just coincidences that happened only today?
“And no matter how much you kick and scream, trolling and playing the devil’s advocate is, at its heart, an attempt to silence someone.”
Again, you aren’t me. Stop “relying on assumptions”. You don’t know what I’m doing, what I’m thinking, or what my intent is. Don’t tell me what my intent is. It’s incredibly rude. When commenters tell YOU your intent, you label them trolls.
But somehow that makes it okay for you to do it?
How exactly, then, does that work?
May 17, 2008 at 8:34 pm
goingtomontreal
I never claimed to have NEVER done any of those things in my life…I simply said I don’t do them on my blog. If you want to point out where, exactly, I have not had an open mind, relied on assumptions, indignant that my voice refuses to be heard, or dismissed ideas outside the realm of my experience? I guess “assuming your intent” my count, but really, it’s not hard to tell with your harsh language and dismissive attitude what your intent is.
And I don’t give a fuck about being rude or not. This isn’t “Miss Manners Feminist.” If you don’t want your intent misconstrued, then think about what you are saying. Or here’s a genius idea: start your own blog and bitch about there. Maybe someone who cares will listen.
May 17, 2008 at 8:47 pm
D
I’m confused. You say you’ve never done them on your blog, then you do them on your blog, and then say you’ve never done them on your blog.
“If you want to point out where, exactly, I have not had an open mind, relied on assumptions, indignant that my voice refuses to be heard, or dismissed ideas outside the realm of my experience?”
I did.
“And I don’t give a fuck about being rude or not. This isn’t “Miss Manners Feminist.” If you don’t want your intent misconstrued, then think about what you are saying. Or here’s a genius idea: start your own blog and bitch about there. Maybe someone who cares will listen.”
No, if I don’t want my ideas misconstrued, perhaps I should voice them to someone with enough intelligence to actually read the statement and understand it, instead of someone who reads a statement not for what it is, but for what she wants it to say (because that gives her justification to attack it).
Also, I’m pretty certain it’s a feminist no-no to use “bitch” in that way.
May 17, 2008 at 8:57 pm
goingtomontreal
Just saying I am doing them is not citing the specific instances in where I have done them. I am a very open-minded individual and having been working hard on trying to examine other experiences outside of my own.
If you want to go find someone with enough “intelligence” to read your comments without ever even thinking about their intent, by all means, go elsewhere. No skin off my nose.
May 19, 2008 at 4:08 pm
whatsername
I was just explaining this concept just yesterday to an “I’ve never been privileged in my life, I earned everything I have!” guy. Good times.
May 27, 2008 at 4:53 pm
LanceThruster
Wasn’t Hellary who said something about “if you can’t stand the heat”…?
I’ve seen quite a few blogs for Hillary ban non-Hillbots merely for expressing a divergent view. I’ve been banned from TN Guerilla Women, Donna Darko, and The Red Queen (who hits a personal low in actually changing the text of my comments). This smacks of her insular, delusional nature IMHO as she and her surrogates cannot seem to handle free and open discourse (the Hildabeast used shills in her townhalls). This may not apply to you but as I have been banned by those sites that shut down dissent, this is where I am able to post for the moment.